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Embrace, extend and extinguish. That's was the strategy behind Google's adoption of the open protocol #XMPP, which eventually died from it. And it will be the strategy when Facebook attempts to extinguish the #fediverse via #threads https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish For at longer story and analysis, read here: https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html
This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to Malte

Please don't fuel the rumours that XMPP is dead. It's very much alive! 🙂

As you said, XMPP is an open protocol. It does not depend on entities like Google to keep it alive.

Just like the Fediverse is alive without Meta.

in reply to MattJ

correct. I've been using XMPP for many, many years with my friends any family. Server and client software is still actively developed and it has gained new features in the recent years.

EEE is a often-mentioned theory that does not necessarily apply to the fediverse. Maybe, but maybe not. XMPP has had some more problems back when its popularity peaked, such as problematic mobile device support and missing features. Also see this interview with @Gargron : https://flipboard.video/w/cTBu4HusskGTuPBahqm6WY

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to Tom :damnified:

The whole #Threads thing seems to for some reason bring a lot of misinformation about #XMPP with it. Google didn't kill it and it's perfectly possible to build messengers for mobile devices with it. Many people commenting on XMPP recently haven't done their research it seems.
in reply to jabberati

Please mind you the author @ploum was a developer of XMPP at the time of Google's federation with the protocol. I think you can do better than calling the article misinformed and badly researched. (Sorry to drag you in here ploum. I want to show there's a person with a history behind the article).
in reply to Malte

I too was an XMPP developer at the time. I still am.

I respect @ploum's article. I don't agree with 100% of it, but that's not a problem - everyone has different opinions! But if you read the article again, it specifically does *not* say that XMPP is dead.

I'm fine with expressing opinions, just asking that we respect the work of everyone in the XMPP community on software and services which are used by countless people daily for their communication needs.
@jabberati @thomas @ploum

in reply to MattJ

I see your main frustration is the claim that XMPP is dead, while there are still users and an active community, which the article also says. But it also says it never recovered from the blow of federation with Google, hence the subtitle "How Google killed XMPP". I think you're taking the expression "killed" too literally. Dying can be a prolonged process.
in reply to Malte

Google leaving XMPP was a blow to the dream most of us shared of federated IM becoming mainstream. Google maybe didn't kill that dream, but seriously wounded it.

Maybe people find it hard to separate the concepts of XMPP (open protocol, open ecosystem) from that dream (which to make reality requires cooperation from everyone running communication services, and is not a technological problem).
@jabberati @thomas

in reply to MattJ

I can imagine how disappointing that must have been. We have another open IM protocol now - #matrixorg - that is seeing lots of adoption and development. Why didn't it just continue the XMPP protocol you think?
in reply to Malte

The federated messaging space includes not only Matrix, but also Delta Chat's novel solution for example. There is plenty of interest and activity around open messaging.

As for Matrix compared to XMPP, they are *very* different technical approaches. Matrix is more like a distributed eventually-consistent JSON graph database, while XMPP is based on hop-by-hop direct delivery. Both models have pros and cons. Personally I prefer XMPP's approach for normal IM.
@thomas

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